Pre-WW1 Commercial Navy P.04/06 Holsters

What is considered an extremely rare commercial M1904/06 navy Luger accessory is a pre-WW1 German made commercial belt carry holster for the pre-WW1 P.04 Navy commercial, five-digit serial numbered, BUG proofed or later lazy N Nitro proofed Lugers. These commercial Navy P.04 holsters are so rare they are not discussed or pictured in either the © 2010 Pistole Parabellum

by E. Bender.

These holsters are rarely encountered or offered for sale and when advertised for sale the offering price is insufferably high. Only four published examples of the pre-WW1 M1904/06 German made Navy commercial holsters have been identified since 1991, including the subject LOB example, a span of 1991 – 2022 or thirty-one years and counting. There are certainly a few more in private collections, where they’ll stay.

Regarding the spare, GERMANY stamped wooden bottom magazine that came inserted in the holster body, spine attached magazine pouch, is that it may have been later added because the wooden bottom grasping surfaces lack concentric rings, typical of a commercial navy Cal 9 m/m marked magazine.

Cal. 9 m/m marked wooden bottom magazines which were available since the earlier introduction of the commercial FAT barrel 9 m/m Lugers, albeit with plain, non-concentric wooden bottom grasping surfaces, so it is possible that perhaps the navy version of the commercial Cal. 9 m/m wooden bottom magazines with concentric circle wooden bottom grasping surfaces were not yet available for the early commercial Navy Lugers. Interestingly, these navy type commercial magazines have been identified with or without Cal. 9 m/m marked wooden bottoms.

The subject LOB pre-WW1 German made commercial P.04 Navy holster, pictured herein is a deep chestnut brown in appearance. It has a molded, full bucket cover flap. The holster has a rather wide, separate strip or piece of leather which acts as a hinge, similar to other pre-WW1 P.08 style commercial holsters, attached to the full bucket cover flap and to the holster rear body panel with two parallel lines of stitching. The holster rear panel has two vertically attached, parallel aligned belt loops.

Considering the size of the holster and the 2.3-pound weight of a loaded P.04 Navy Luger, the cover flap attached leather strap and holster body steel buckle are rather flimsy, with the cover flap strap being very narrow, only 15 m/m wide x 1.9 m/m thick as is the very narrow 9.5 m/m width x 1.4 m/m thick holster pull-up strap. The holster weight, empty with no magazine inserted is a mere 8.7 ounces.

Loading Tool and Cover flap Underside Loading Tool Leather Pouch and Closing Flap

Unfortunately, the only three other pre-WW1 German commercial P.04 holsters pictured in this article; none are shown with the cover flap open. Even if it is determined that all have the longer loading tool pouch and loading tool does not help in identifying the purpose of these uniquely configured holsters and endless speculative theories and opining will, at this time, serve no useful purpose.

a.k.a. LTM-NP and is pictured with pistol and accessories on page 47 and described on page 46 where, as part of the description states, with no mention of the under the cover flap loading tool pouch, that: The commercial Naval holster which holds an extra magazine and take-down tool, is an extremely rare accessory. Considering that some of the items pictured in LTM-NP may not have been personally, thoroughly examined by †Kenyon, could account for the description lacking any mention of the oversized loading tool and pouch. Additionally, since the picture shows only a partial, top view of the cover flap, the complete, external/internal configuration cannot be determined. It is certain, however, that both examples, †Kenyon and LOB are pre-WW1.

However, there is no doubt that a few of the M1904/06 commercial Navy Luger holsters were sold by Hans Tauscher through his office or independently as early as 1907 as evidenced by a self-promotional Hans Tauscher, circa 1908 boiler plate letter enclosed in a 1909 post mark dated Tauscher letter head envelope titled: Some of the Many Testimonials of the Luger Automatic Pistol and Carbine.

One testimonial of particular interest states:

It would be interesting to know what “regular style” 9 m/m Luger pistols they have (had); plain chambered or American Eagle, late Old Model 1902 FAT barrels or the New Model Grip Safety, 4-inch, 9 m/m Lugers. If the latter, it suggests that the New Model P.08 style grip safety, 4-inch barrel 9 m/m Luger preceded the P.04 Navy commercial. By January 1908. It is more likely they had the New Model grip safety, 4-inch barrel Luger and became interested in purchasing the slightly earlier introduced “New German Navy Luger”.

While stating in the 1908/09 Tauscher flier that while being accepted by the German Navy, yet featuring a New Model grip safety, 4-inch barrel 9 m/m P.08 style Luger that the 4-inch 9 m/m model was first offered for sale through Tauscher, however, though not advertised, it is accepted that the commercial P.04 Navy Luger was available or most likely Tauscher may not have yet been aware of the commercial P.04 Navy variation. That is not to say that the circa 1906 – 1914 German made commercial holsters for the grip safety P.04 and P.08 style Lugers were made in that order.

There is no doubt that some of these M1904/06 commercial Navy Lugers sold through Hans Tauscher were accompanied with holsters, though not advertised, also offered through Hans Tauscher. Additionally, in 1907 the only source of German commercial Navy Luger holsters would be German

, as in 1907 American leathermakers demand for Navy Luger holsters would have been nonexistent. There are no known, verifiable pre-WW1 American made commercial Navy Luger holsters.

In a relatively obscure July, 1911 monthly magazine titled Hunter – Trader – Trapper

had a detailed article on pre-WW1 commercial DWM Lugers, which included the 9 m/m 4-inch barrel Luger, the 30 Cal Luger Hunting Carbine and the 9 m/m German Navy Luger “Carbine”. In the article the Editor credited Hans Tauscher with providing the information.

Interestingly, the line-drawings, assumedly also provided by Tauscher,

had the word SAFE added to the polished white Thumb Safety area, however, except for the M1906 New Model, 4-inch barrel 9 m/m Luger, being not applicable for the Luger Hunting Carbine and the new pre-WW1 commercial GESICHERT safety marked German Navy Luger, of which Tauscher supplied a line-drawing of a 1901, 30 Cal, Chilean Carbine with a push-button stock, not the new German Navy Luger, which never sported a SAFE marked thumb safety area until the 1920s when DWM manufactured SAFE and Loaded marked P.08 style Lugers, although only with 3-7/8 inch .30 Cal barrels

Note, all three period publications offer the new commercial German Navy Luger as a carbine rig. Also, interestingly, the AKAH catalog offered commercial DWM 480C, 9 m/m ammunition,

specifically for the new model commercial German P.08 style and Navy Luger Carbine, an interesting, early established association.

The 1907 – 1914 time-frame appears to be the peak of domestic advertisings in U.S. magazines and catalogs for the new commercial German Navy Luger as with the advent of the first world war and import restrictions did the pre-WW1 variation disappear off the radar until relatively recent times.

If the customer didn’t want the navy carbine configuration and only the pistol, it may have been possible to order a “standard” belt loop type holster, if desired by the customer, through Tauscher as it doesn’t seem possible that a Tauscher American customer who purchased a commercial German Navy Luger would have access to a German made holster other than through Tauscher. Also, the rather large size of the Navy Luger, initially offered as a carbine rig with its 150 m/m or 6-inch barrel may have been considered too awkward for a belt loop holster carry, hence limited customer demand.

Apparently, with the limited DWM production of commercial German Navy Lugers offered through the pre-WW1 Tauscher and other American catalogs and magazines and domestically in Germany, separately, with one spare magazine did, obviously encourage at least one German leathermaker to make a few commercial navy Luger holsters fitted with a single magazine pouch,

although, most likely for German domestic sales and since very few of these holsters were made, and even less survived, there was no need or financial incentive for more than one German leathermaker as evidenced by the commonality of the few observed examples.

The M1904/06 commercial German Navy Lugers of these Hans Tauscher catalog pre-WW1 carbine rigs usually have five-digit serial numbers on the pistols and attaching irons, however, some BUG proofed and lazy N Nitro proofed M1904/06 Navy five-digit serial numbered pistols were German domestic offerings/sold separately, as stated above, which created a need for a few commercial holsters pictured and discussed herein. It is possible that since these few commercial German Navy Luger holsters were German made that most were sold in Germany, hence very few are found in the U.S. However, as the old adage goes, in this case, for every holster identified there are several more in private collections.

By the 1920s with many Luger variations, including Navy Lugers, military and commercial assemblies being imported to the U.S., the demand for navy Luger holsters was sufficient enough for some American holster makers who stepped up to meet the, albeit limited demand, such as Heiser

, Lawrence

and some unknown makers

, although these American name-brand holsters were not generally in-stock items, but were individually made per customer order through dealer’s catalogs, with the P.08 and LP.08 holster orders, based on observations, relatively speaking, more common. Pictured is a period holster makers catalog statement regarding customers’ orders.

Other Early German Commercial Made Luger Holsters

Pictured together are multiple views of the above cited pre-WW1 circa 1908 – 1914 P.08 style holster and the subject commercial German Navy P.04 style holster.

Note that the pull-up strap of both examples has the same pebble grain appearance while the P08 style pull-up strap is wider being 12 mm vs the narrower 9 mm width of the P.04 Navy holster and the closing cover flap strap of the P.08 style is also wider being 19 mm vs the narrower 15 mm width of the P.04 Navy, closing cover flap strap. Interestingly, with the circa 1908 – 1914 P.08 style holster, the pull-up strap is anchored to the rear panel, close to the entrance, a much better, effective location for the pull-up strap to act as a cradle in hoisting the Luger, while the P.04 Navy holster pull-up strap is anchored decidedly lower on the rear panel, being less efficient as a cradle, located in between the lower termination of the twin belt loops.

This lower anchor location of the P.04 Navy commercial holster pull-up strap would cause trouble in conjunction with using the narrower width pull-up strap to raise the 2.3-pound P.04 Navy Luger high enough out of the holster to grab the grip and continue the removal of the P.04 Navy commercial Luger from the holster. This could explain why the narrower width pull-up strap, while still present, detached from the holster body rear panel. The identical, square shaped steel buckle with roller is accordingly smaller on the P.04 navy holster. The holster body rear panel on the inside of both P.04 Navy and P.08 style examples are not lined and have a pebble grain or pig skin appearance. The cover flap loading tool pouch of both holsters utilize the identical size, style and shape, brown enamel coated steel studs.

It would appear, with minor subtleties aside, that both pre-WW1 commercial holsters were made in Germany by the same, unknown leather maker and with the commercial P.04 long frame commercial Navy Luger, possibly being the earlier variation, immediately prior to the introduction of the new model, short frame P.08 style, 4-inch barrel, 9 m/m Luger that the subject commercial P.04 Navy holster variation was made first and that the leathermaker, subsequently, improved on the P.08 style holster design by increasing the strength and anchor location of the pull-up strap and additionally increasing the strength of the closing cover strap and accordingly stronger holster body leather attachment to a larger, square steel belt buckle and roller.

Commercial M1904/06 Five-Digit Serial Number Navy Lugers

The pre-WW1 commercial German Navy Luger was first acknowledged as a variation in the ©1958 publication titled LUGER VARIATIONS by †Harry Jones with a M1904/06 commercial Luger prominently pictured on the cover.

This same, identical commercial Navy Luger was again pictured on page 94 identified as of the author’s collection with a full detailed description of the variation on the opposite page 95. Questionable comments regarding the extractor marking by Jones as: being mostly GELADEN: sometimes LOADED. Since 1958, no authenticated examples of a pre-WW1 commercial German Navy Luger have been identified with a Loaded marked extractor. Pictured is the complete page 95 description.

Therefore, according to †Jones and †Kenyon, there are pre-WW1 commercial German Navy Lugers with a combination of LOADED marked extractors and polished bright safety markings. There are indeed, pre-WW1 grip safety, 4-inch 9 m/m and 4¾-inch 30 Cal barrel Lugers with Loaded marked extractors with bright polished safety markings, however, they are usually not proofed and exclusively American Eagle chamber crested and GERMANY export marked Lugers.

No pre-WW1 plain chambered commercial Lugers in either caliber, of regular or navy configuration, have been identified with authenticated Safe and Loaded markings other than the 1911 Hans Tauscher depicted, delusional line-drawing renderings in the July 1911 Hunter – Trader – Trapper magazine

on a page 79 promotional picture titled THE LUGER SPORTING CARBINE AND THE GERMAN NAVY PISTOL, WITH WOOD STOCK,

while incorrectly showing a 1901 Chilean Carbine rig with push-button stock rig with a polished bright white lower Thumb Safety area with the added word SAFE, including a totally unbelievable M1902 Luger Hunting Carbine rig with the same polished bright white, lower Thumb Safety area with the added word SAFE.

Also, per †Harry Jones in LUGER VARIATIONS

who stated that he does not believe these Lugers were produced in 7.65 m/m and additionally states; do not confuse with the 1920 Naval Commercial, although †Kenyon, Jr. in L@R believes there were some, albeit VERY few in 30 Caliber. Of particular interest in the description is the LUGER VARIATIONS author’s opinion that the M1904/06 commercial German Navy Luger is: A much sought over variation, usually found only in advanced collections.

Rogue Commercial M1904/06 Four-Digit Serial Number Navy Lugers

In 2003 Dr. Geoff Sturgess did an in-depth analysis of 7960, basically supporting the authenticity of 7960 as a genuine pre-WW1, first contract German navy P.04 BUG proofed commercial Luger and is presented here.

In-depth analysis

Re 7960, I did not know that the barrel sn was an over stamp, as you did not mention it and it is not immediately apparent in the photos you sent. This does not change my analysis however - the crown/M and numbering on the barrel is obviously factory original, and re-stamping and partial over stamps on both military and commercial Parabellums is quite common. I thought the shortened receiver and frame (130.24 m/m vs 131.24 m/m) pretty self-explanatory as to why the pistol was not passed for Navy acceptance and was used up commercially, as a Navy reject. The frame/receiver shortening of 1.01mm is nearly one turn of the barrel threads (20TPI/1.27 mm pitch) and the barrel shortening is 1full turn (1.27 mm) plus 0.38 and this added to the shortening of the receiver would be accounted for, after also re-cutting the chamber 1.65 mm deeper in matching up exactly vertical the sight and extractor cuts of a barrel already Navy inspected and serialled for fitting to another (Navy) pistol (the original serial number on the barrel) to a receiver and/or frame rejected for other reasons and cut back to effect a match after the foresight bed and extractor cuts had been made to the barrel.

This matching up would normally have been done before the finishing foresight bed and extractor cuts were made, and the serial number and fiducial marks (to also align the barrel in the jigs for final machining) applied to ensure correct mating up on reassembly after final machining of the barrel. Why this barrel was salvaged from its original pistol and used up with a reject receiver frame is impossible to determine - possibly its original mating frame or receiver was rejected for an uncorrectable reason and scrapped, leaving the barrel and possibly other components to be used up on this pistol with reject (for the Navy) but salvageable receiver and or frame etc. DWM would certainly not scrap usable parts just because of marginal rejection by the Navy inspectors, and there were no contractual tables of dimensions to be adhered to for commercial pistols.

The absence of any inspection marks in the stop-lug well of the frame, the pin-wheel plus one digit (4) on the receiver ring and the early machining of the recess at the base of the mainspring recess at the rear of the grip are conclusive evidence that this pistol was manufactured (if not finally assembled) as part of the first batch of components for the Navy - re-read my last e-mail and the internal markings table. It is quite wrong in assuming that the early five-digit commercial pistols, P.04s or other configurations, were made or assembled in parallel with the first batch of Navy P.04s - the markings and some machining characteristics are quite different, and it is a matter of historical record that DWM were very late and under extreme pressure from Grand Admiral Tirpitz personally to deliver this first batch within the financial year (1905-6) for which Parliament had allocated the budget - the late delivery was very embarrassing for both the Navy and DWM, and they evidently pulled out all the stops to complete this first 8000 guns by March 1906, but failed and overran delivery into May-June 1906.

There is no question of anything else, especially commercial New Model pistols of any type, being made in parallel with the first batch Navy guns during this period - the commercials came afterwards and were made in parallel with the second and subsequent Navy batches. Hence, any really pressing requirement for non-German Navy delivery of P.04s, such as. I am presuming, the so-called Chilean pistols, could only have been met by diverting pistols from the Navy batch in early 1906: this is perhaps borne out by my 1872C being apparently a dimensionally perfect example, which could have been accepted by the Navy, but was diverted after the first Navy inspection, of the barrel only and finished without further markings or proof as a trials pistol. Knowing the exigencies of juggling production to meet urgent orders when there are pressing commercial reasons to divert samples for sound marketing reasons, I can sympathize with Luger's position in having to judge who to disappoint most.

In view of the barrel renumbering, I am inclined to think that perhaps 7960 was made up from salvaged parts from rejects of the Navy batch, rather than being a pistol rejected as a whole and so diverted from Navy delivery, quite possibly after the first 8000 P.04s had been delivered rather than during the scramble to get these pistols out to the Navy, and it retained the original (frame & receiver) Navy serial number - presumably even more filing off and refinishing would have been needed to completely renumber it as a five-digit commercial, including the small parts, so it was left with the number the bulk of it was born with, and so only the barrel number had to be changed. The commercial proofing involved solely an inspection for mechanical flaws (cracks etc.) in the metal before and after over-pressure proof firing, and did not require any check of the dimensions or finish - this was the job of the factory inspectors and DWM's internal QC department, not the (external) Proof Master, whose only concern was safety when fired. There I rest my case - All the best, and Happy New Year,
Geoff

The three TBLAP

pages on the commercial P.04 Navy Lugers, 892

, 893

and 894

are also included with some text underlined for emphasis and can be examined for other related, pertinent information. The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols

publication, three-page section on The Commercial P.04 Volume II Chapter 13, pages 892, 893, 894 cited above, were scoured for any information relating to pre-WW1 four-digit, BUG proofed commercial P.04 Navy Lugers and found no mention.

Note that the P.04 BUG proofed commercial German Navy Luger, serial number 7960 is not GERMANY export stamped. Additionally, it can be categorically stated that the only period correct commercial holster, specifically made for a stand-alone, circa 1906 first Navy contract variation four-digit, exclusively BUG proofed or later (1906 – 1914) production five-digit serial numbered, pre-WW1 BUG proofed and lazy crown N nitro proofed commercial Navy Luger is the subject, extremely rare holster variation discussed herein.

Although, it should be noted that the subject commercial navy holster was probably made for use with the later 1906 – 1914, five-digit serial numbered BUG and lazy N nitro proofed commercial navy Lugers, it is nevertheless appropriate for any BUG proofed or lazy C/N nitro proofed pre-WW1 commercial Navy Luger. Pictured are several views of 7960 with the subject LOB commercial, full cover bucket flap German Navy Luger commercial holster.

Lazy Crown N Commercial Nitro Proofed No-Serial-Number German Navy P.04 Luger

Regarding the balance of this P.04 configuration and the proofing is as stated by Sturgess in his analysis of the configuration of 7960 that the commercial proofing involved solely an inspection for mechanical flaws (cracks etc.) in the metal before and after over-pressure proof firing, and did not require any check of the dimensions or finish - this was the job of the factory inspectors and DWM's internal QC department, not the (external) Proof Master, whose only concern was safety when fired.

The NSN toggle link assembly may not be original to the pre-WW1 configuration of the NSN P.04 based on underside factory markings unique to 1920s DWM Luger component assemblies and other factors. For alternate explanations regarding the subject NSN navy P.04 Luger, go to another navy Luger article on this site, pages 1 through 3.

Another type of early, first contract P.04 Navy Luger Conversion

To supplement Sturgess’s analysis of 7960 is, albeit another type of conversion of a first contract P.04 Navy Luger to a New Model commercial, in this case, also done by DWM to assemble a very early production five-digit, 4¾-inch 30 Cal barrel, serial number 25210. This conversion used an unused spare, first contract batch, no serial number letter suffix navy long frame with a lower GESICHERT stamped Thumb Safety area. The frame was modified by removing the rear gripstrap stock lug, converting it to a commercial configuration and numbering the unnumbered spare frame front, serial number 25210.

The early converted hybrid Navy production GERMANY export stamped 1906 New Model pistol, found its way to Argentina as evidenced by the J. Canedo added retailer barrel stamping. Serial number 25210 is a legitimate, authenticated New Model production Luger lacking any proofs, commercial or Navy, the rare variation being described in the © 1969 Lugers At Random publication by †C. Kenyon, Jr.

on pages 94 and 95 where he pictures a similar example with the following description under:

Interestingly, all three of the commercial Navy Luger frames, 7960 BUG proofed and lazy crown N nitro proofed, no-serial-number and the 25210 rear gripstrap straight wall entrance, all lack a divot^[3] or scallop shaped cut-out. This curious machining anomaly, added as part of original frame manufacture, for easier magazine insertion, was not addressed in the 2003 Sturgess analysis of 7960 nor in the later TBLAP, volume 1, chapter 3, on pages 248 & 249,

however, regarding the Navy frames of the no letter suffix, first contract batch he does discuss the lack of inspection marks in the forward lug wells,

yet does not address the lack of a divot or scallop shaped cut-out in the magazine rear entrance wall of all previous old model frames, including the no letter suffix, first contract batch Navy “long” frames. Listed are the Navy frame machining commonalities of the subject three commercial Lugers:

Either it is purely coincidence that the magazine well rear wall entrance of all three featured commercial Navy Luger frames lack a machining step i.e., a divot or scalloped-shaped cut-out found in all DWM manufactured Lugers since 1898 Borchardt Luger 5 and through WW1 and later.

The conclusion being, until proven otherwise, that this specific, sporadic machining omission is unique to the first batch contract P.04 Navy Luger frames. †Görtz/Sturgess in Pistole Parabellum

attempts to address this issue on page 375 in a section titled: Features of Early Commercial New Models where in a figure 296 caption he discusses the stock lug removal of first contract navy frames.

Regarding the first contract navy reject frame used for 1906 early production, new model grip safety Luger 25210, which is fitted with a 30 Cal 4-3/4 inch barrel, that the rejection of the frame may not be related to the removal of the stock lug by DWM, but attributed to a flaw in the rear gripstrap rear wall magazine entrance

. Note that the lack of the gripstrap rear entrance scoop or divot was as manufactured as was the subject NSN commercial navy and 7960 P.04 commercial navy. Pictured is an expanded view of the 25210 gripstrap rear entrance machining anomaly.

There are no other noted anomalies of the 25210 long frame, which correctly measures 131 mm has not been cut-back.

by John Walter on page 193 describes in a Han Tauscher list of Lugers sold through his office in the time-frame of 1913 – 17, with 1913 being a very peculiar starting year. There, as part of the Tauscher confiscated books or ledgers, cites that ‘Navy Commercial’ Luger, 9mm – 71 (were) sold, numbered between 25064 and 64400.

Walter additionally noted the very low number, right at the beginning production of the model, as indicative of particularly slow sales of the ‘navy commercials’. This assumes the sale of individual commercial Navy pistols with no mention of commercial Navy carbine rig sales, which one assumes was an even slower seller than an individual commercial Navy Luger, similar to the early, slow sales of the Luger Hunting Carbine rigs.

Also, in the same page 193 comments Walter states that: The guns distributed in the United States, (with the exception of the Luger Hunting Carbine), invariably bore the American Eagle over the chamber and, after 1902, displayed GERMANY across the front of the frame beneath the serial number. This does not comport with the fact that no authentic or otherwise, pre-WW1 American Eagle chamber crested or Germany export stamped commercial Navy Luger has been identified, of which, not being Americanized also contributed to paltry sales in the U.S. Pictured are the complete comments by Walter on page 193 of The Luger Book.

Commercial Navy P.04 Lugers and Holsters Summary

Pre-WW1 German made commercial holsters for the circa 1906 – 1914, plain chambered Commercial BUG and Lazy N or horizontal Nitro proofed German P.04 Navy and new model grip safety P.08 style 9 m/m Lugers featured herein are unusual in one particular aspect, as stated above, and that is the lack of German export marks on the pistols. Most pre-WW1 Lugers entering the country were American Eagle chamber crested, interestingly, mostly lacking proof marks, either imported directly from DWM to domestic American retail dealers including, but not limited to Hans Tauscher the American “sole” representative for DWM.

It is also certain that some of the commercial P.04 Navy Lugers, with or without holsters also entered the country in similar circumstances. Although, the subject LOB pre-WW1 commercial P.04 Navy holster,

being correctly pictured in this article with commercially proofed P.04 Navy Lugers, being example 1

and example 2,

there is no suggestion, implied or otherwise that they, the holster and pistol, are original to each other. It should be noted that most plain chambered, commercially proofed Lugers, albeit very few, entered the country normally, through customs, being Germany export marked.

Addendum

January 2024 Since the November 2022 publication of this article another example of the subject, rare P04 navy holster has been acquired. Despite the absolute rarity the unfortunate, incorrect identity of this second, unmarked pre-World War commercial Navy P04 Luger holster, along with the offering mis-identification and description, combined with collectors' unfamiliarity with the subject Luger holster variation, resulted in no bidding offers, the seller description, at the beginning, correctly stating (guessing): Probably a commercial private purchase. The description then went downhill continuing with: A very nice and rare "Artillery" Luger holster. Brown leather, unmarked. It is close to 12" long which should fit an 8" barreled Luger. Some scuffing at the bottom that would clean up with saddle soap or shoe polish. Below is an AI generated description.^[5] The holster is perfect for those interested in the history of conflicts and warfare. The item is in good condition and is an ideal addition to any militaria or WWI collection. Its unique design and originality make it a must-have for collectors.

Based on the above inaccurate sellers' description the second example was offered at a small fraction of the price of the first example being offered by a major Midwest Firearms Retailer

. Ironically, both examples didn't attract buyers, for two separate reasons.

incorrect description resulted in the listing languishing for weeks without sale. Again, ironically the second, lower priced example 2 was in slightly better condition than the overpriced dealers' example 1 offering.

All other physical characteristics, dimensions, thread used, stitching pattern of both examples 1 and 2 are identical.

[1] Abstracted – Although probably correct, the usage is obscure. A better, more common alternative would be: Reconfigured, Re-purposed or diverted.

[2] While the holsters are not dated, there are no identified grip safety pre-WW1 P.04 military holster board-stocks with H. CLEMENS – EBERFELD made holsters. In fact, most all first contract pre-WW1 P.04 navy holsters are not maker marked, but identified only by a very small 3 m/m x 4 m/m Imperial Navy C/M inventory stamp, located under the tear-drop style cover flap, commonly missed by collectors. This P.04 navy holster C/M inventory marking was probably discontinued in the same time frame as was the C/M navy barrel marking per TBLAP, VII, C13, page 894

[4] “vestigial flat” = Non-functioning structure.

[5] A classic example of relying on AI (Artificial Intelligence) as a source of reliable information.